Josh Prabhakar and Parker Richardson

Parker Richardson is a senior commercial and customer engagement leader with over two decades of experience driving growth, innovation, and transformation across the biopharmaceutical industry. He has led at the executive level for global organizations, shaping omnichannel strategy, brand launches, and enterprise operations.

Alongside his corporate career, Parker is the founder of FOURTH, where he writes and speaks on leadership, perspective, and the kind of strength that often only reveals itself under pressure. His work sits at the intersection of performance, reflection, and what it really means to lead well.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Hello everyone, welcome to the Adamaeus Podcast, a space uh that we create for Christians who are working in the corporate world to connect their faith and their work. We know that this is always uh a disconnect that exists for many people, where uh we live a world in a world where we have to kind of function in a secular setting, but we have strong faith. And so uh we're creating a space here where we bring in guests, jog our thinking, uh, and we can prioritize our practical, uh prioritize our actions to be practical uh so that we can be better witnesses for him. So, with that being said, I'm very excited today to have Parker Richardson uh join me on this podcast. Uh he's a senior commercial and customer engagement leader with over two decades of experience driving growth across um uh pharmaceutical companies and others. Uh he's transformed uh many biopharmaceutical uh companies, driven innovation through that. He's led the uh executive he's led at an executive level for global organizations. He shaped uh omnichannel strategy, which I'm sure uh is top of mind for many of uh you guys who are listening. Uh he's done several brand launches as well as enterprise operations. Uh alongside his corporate career, uh Parker is also the founder of Fourth, and we'll talk a little bit more about that, where he writes and he speaks on leadership uh and provides his perspective on that. So, Parker, welcome. Thrilled to have you, and uh thank you so much for joining us here.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Yeah, absolutely, Josh. I really appreciate the invitation. Happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Perfect. So uh Parker, just uh uh I know you and I kind of know each other uh in passing um through our own careers, but would love to kind of just get an overview of your maybe your career journey uh and kind of like what brought you to where you are right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah. No, happy to. And yeah, I think we go back to uh our our our GSK days. Um mid-career for me to this point. Um so yeah, I went to um I grew up in Arkansas, went to the University of Memphis for college and uh fortunate enough to marry right out of college. And um, she's probably the underpinning to this entire story and enabling all of what I'm about to say to happen. But um I've been uh I I guess kind of all over. I started in banking. I I started with a local Mississippi bank, even though I had an international business degree, uh kind of opposite ends of that spectrum. But did that for five years before I got into the pharma world where I um joined as a sales rep and didn't know too much about what I was really getting into, except um that I was always looking for the opportunity to continue to grow, even uh even after taking on those new challenges. And so I was really fortunate that while I was a sales rep, I was able to get my EBA and join a program that um our employer was offering at the time that allowed me to take on um two roles domestically and two roles internationally over a period of about four, four and a half years. And so in that time, I was able to meet great folks like yourself, but also live in uh some really exciting places. We've we moved to North Carolina, then to uh Paris before going a long way back to Seattle and then moved back to London. And uh at that time, the that that program I was on kind of ended. And so we were enjoying this life outside of the U.S. And we're fortunate enough to find our next role uh located in Belgium. And so we stayed there for a few years. There's uh a lot of faith that we're gonna talk about that comes through all of those moves and uh the trials that come along with Living Internationally before we moved back to the US in 2018, just before the pandemic. Um, in the pandemic, I ended up switching companies and went and launched uh a vaccine that was uh near to too many, I'm sure in some ways, without naming what that was. And um after that, I ended up at uh the company that I was most recently with, where I was brought in through a global transformation that they were they were going through and had an opportunity to build a great team there and uh really do some great omni-channel work in that setting. Um, but all along the way, I know we're gonna get into it all along the way, you know, we're gonna talk about how kind of faith weaves in and out of there and and and you know, honestly ebbed and flowed as as we went through that journey with a lot of uh various things going on. Um just personally, we've got four kids. We um two of them are in college. We've got another one headed that way this fall. So that's been a whole different season of life, too. But uh those four kids um arrived to us, one through adoption and uh and three um biological after that. So we've got um you know a bit of testimony of faith that lies there too. So um yeah, that's that's our background, two dogs. Hopefully in the background they don't make themselves known today, but that's that's where we're at.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So very good. That sounds exciting. Uh a lot of a lot of transition uh across the across the globe. So yeah, really actually looking forward to kind of um talking to you a little bit about how those decisions were made, and I'm sure they'll come up um throughout our conversation. But before we get into that, Parker would love uh to talk to you about like omnichannel really quickly, just to get your perspective. So, you know, I know it's uh many organizations are going through this. So kind of give us an overview when you think of Omnichannel. What is the I think we all know what it is, but like maybe what's the biggest challenges you're seeing organizations face as they're trying to implement this?

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Well, if I can be a little bit provocative in my initial response and I'll maybe back off of that. I I I feel like the biggest challenge that organizations are facing, just to regurgitate your question there, is actually the word itself. So I I I've I've been quite open in my own journey with that word that I think we're arriving at a point in time in which we probably need to think about eliminating the word because the word almost creates a something separate or something in addition or something extra. And a lot of times, I think certainly in what we've learned is where we were successful in integrating that idea of omnichannel was when it was integrated as just in essence marketing. Like it is, it is how we or or customer engagement, you know, pick, pick whatever term or flavor you prefer. It becomes just how we engage as we go to engage with customers. We do so in a way that spans all of our available channels, including the sales team and the people that has to be driven and orchestrated by data that needs engines or something similar to scale at the uh both the personalization level we're pursuing, but also at the scale of customers that we have, the data that we have, the content that we have. So it's quickly gone from something that is um, I think something we thought we could do as an industry with just more people and more of an army to something now that requires the technology that's emerging. And when we can, I think it's important in the journey to keep it separate, to keep that omnichannel title or some flavor of that as something separate. But it but eventually it has to just become the way we engage. Uh, and we do that in an omnichannel way. So I think that's one of the biggest problems, is just trying to figure out how it becomes part of what we do. One just real quick, great story we had was when we were going through some of our own business cases and pilots and learning journey ourselves, we got to this point where uh a couple of people in the local affiliate pushed back on what we were trying to do. And they said, you know, I don't have time to do my day job and do this. Kind of a light bulb really went off in that moment. It was like, well, that's exactly the point. You don't, this is your new day job. Like you don't, you don't need to do those things you were doing. It should be this. And um, I think when when you can understand that and embrace that and see how operating in that way replaces what we may have been doing uh five years earlier, then we really start to make some headway. And in that space, you can start to say, okay, look, I'm not doing something disseparate. I'm now doing marketing. I'm now doing customer engagement, and I'm using these tools to make that happen.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Yeah. No, well said. I completely agree. I think it's um the mindset shift that needs to happen is customer engagement is all of these things, right? So it's just a new way of doing it. And we as leaders need to kind of create that shift. It's not, you know, sales, marketing, you know, all these things. It's customer engagement. And you've got data underpinning so many different uh then channels that you're kind of using, depending on what works the best. Um said. Um so your changes or the transitions you just described are fascinating to me. Uh so maybe just talk me through or talk us through, like, you know, uh were there moments in that journey, uh, whether it's through leadership or your faith uh that shape some of these decisions that you are making and when to move, when to stay, those kinds of things.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

This is a great question. I um uh in a word, of course, or in two words, of course. Um, but the reality of that and the practicality of it of that, I think, has not only ebbed and flowed over time, uh I think we've got a very different understanding as we get um I was gonna say older, but maybe what I mean is like deeper in our faith. Um I would say the decisions that I was faced with and at all stages, at all steps, that was in partnership with my wife. I don't know that I faced them or went through those decisions in the same way that I would or that I am today, because I'm certainly walking through a you know similar seasons today as well. Um I don't I I do recall obviously a handful of moments where you know we leaned on God. I mean, talking about what it's going to be like to move internationally or going through the adoption process or any of that stuff. Like we were absolutely dialed in and near to Him, but there's a lot more of other decisions that were maybe felt in some ways lesser or quicker where maybe we weren't as dialed in. Um I and I don't necessarily mean times where it was like, give me a give me strength for this discussion or that discussion. I I've certainly done that too, and I know we'll talk about that a little bit later, but I mean strength more like resilience through seasons that feel difficult or challenging for whatever reason. Um one example of this while I was living abroad, there was a period of transition where I remember feeling like really out of my element. We we had the opportunity to, you know, very blessed to have the opportunity to go live in France, live in Paris. Um and the amount of change you you really go through in doing that, I mean, everything is different. My son had severe food allergies, so we were looking for what he could have and what could eat, and all of those stereotypes about language are pervasive and true. And so um, you know, you just get worn down from from the amount of change that's sort of going on. And there's a resiliency you really need to go to go through that. But I on my my journey to work was about 80 minutes each way, and so I was I was on a number of different metros and uh all these things, and I had plenty of time. And I remember, I don't know if I did it right away, but at some point I remember um this was back in the day of wired airpods that weren't wireless, but uh my wired air pods, I was just, I mean, I was Christian worship music nonstop on some of those rides where it was just like, man, I just need to hear that you're there, that you're with me, that you're in front of me, that you've gone before me on these things, that you know, that I'm fine, that I'm gonna be okay. Um, and it was that like comfort and the nourishment of those moments where like I I know I hope it doesn't sound cheesy in some ways because it it was all it was true. It was all I knew to do. You know, I knew I needed to lean on him. Um, because I also knew that even though I felt like I was struggling, I felt like I was worn down, I felt like there's just an immense amount of change. I also knew that in that there was still preparation for whatever else was to come. And in in a lot of ways that was comforting. I know it may sound yeah uh opposed, but there was a lot of comfort in that. So I I would I I mean, I guess summarizing, like there's just there's I think he's been present in all of our decisions. I think the intensity of our presence back to him has been the thing that's kind of gone back and forth. And in a in a season we're in right now, um never before have we leaned into this phrase about you know just having hands open. And that comes from a uh sermon we heard recently about, you know, God's not able to bless what you grasp or what you're clinching. And so really needing to have our hands just wide open, that he is absolutely working it out, and he's there, he's ahead of us, and he's all over. And and so I would say that um, you know, the intensity of him leaning on, or of us leaning on him helping shape the decisions we're making now is at a different place than where it was back in the day. But he was still present, and that was what we knew at the time, and that was our walk at the time. So I I hope that's encouraging too, that that no matter where you are, no matter where where you're at in your walk, that um, you know, for for others out there, just like we've done, it's uh the intensity of that can certainly have inflow.

SPEAKER_00 12:53

Yeah. No, I think I think it's well said, uh you know, as as you were talking, I was reflecting on this idea. You know, it's easy when things are going well, we always say thank you, right? But it's even in those hard times, like the way you said it, like we know it's preparation for something, and we need to be thankful even in those situations. And I think that takes a little bit of the burden off, right? Knowing that there's something else God has for us, and this is a moment of preparation and struggle that we're going through.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Um I've got one more, one more situation that if you don't mind me sharing. Yeah, yeah, please do. And let me know if I'm running running to you. No, no, no. No, go ahead. There's just one other real like I would describe it as pivotal. Um, when I was contemplating whether or not the company I was with was a company I wanted to stay with. Like it it really started to lean first on my head, but pretty heavily on my heart, that I don't I didn't think this was really the place I needed to be for the next phase of my career. And so for various reasons, things were becoming clear around me that the culture, the leadership, it just wasn't right. And I started to just feel that. And I don't know that I necessarily attributed that to God at the time, but I think I look back and I attribute that to God. You know, like it puts things on us that we may not realize or or things that he's doing, but looking back, it was clear. Um, so I I knew this where it wasn't where I needed to invest my own time, my own effort for the future. And the conviction of that just began to emerge. So the only thing was that the odd thing here is that that conviction was reaching a peak while my wife and I were on a house hunting trip to relocate to where this company was located. Um, to do that, we had to sell our previous home. So when we went on this trip, I mean, we were all in. We didn't have a home to go back to except to get our boxes out. We um, you know, we were really all in on going to this new place. But while we were there, uh we really felt the Lord telling us that we were going to do something different. And the key moment in this story was when um my wife and I were talking through this about what we were feeling, and I was trying to share with her like why I was feeling this way and where my head was. Um we, you know, no home, no job, uh, four kids and a dog rely on us. I remember praying with her uh and and crying. Like we were just literally sitting there crying. I've never been that kind of person, it feels cringy to say out loud, but um really cementing the step we were going to take together. The the even funnier part of this story is we had we had taken an RV we owned at the time. So we were doing this in an RV lot in the middle of RV, uh praying and crying, and uh got through that and and after that, after that moment called um called my boss and told him what was going on and uh offered a resignation and a long resignation period. This wasn't acrimonious, it wasn't ugly, it wasn't anything like that, but it was just something that felt like was the right thing for us to do, even though there wasn't somewhere else to be. And so we we took that RV and we headed back to um there where her in-laws, where where my in-laws live, where her parents are from. And um things worked out great. We didn't obviously know at the time, but it was, I think it was like 60 days later I was starting another job and was even promoted to you know, kind of that next, that next hierarchy, that next level. So that worked out and um had a great run at at that spot. So there's so much faithfulness we don't know that's happening around us when we're going through that. But um, in that case, it you know worked out really well. But it and I I also look back and I think that 60-day window where there was nothing, man, it didn't feel like 60 days. That that thing felt like 600 days. But uh but looking back, it was so short. And um, you know, that was a place where we were just really, I mean, we had nothing else to do but lean on lean on God in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

Yeah. Yeah, I I mean I like that story, Parker, because the vulnerability, right? I mean, like um it kind of transforms you emotionally, like when you're going through something that's so uncertain, uh, that you knew that you had to change, but then, you know, like what you described is just kind of being broken down, right? And recognizing that you needed to do something. Uh, it's not normal, right? In our day-to-day, that's not something that happens. But I think being vulnerable to him allows us to kind of be open to what the next step is. So yeah, great. 100%. Um, so let's let's talk about the tension uh that I I know many um people feel like when we're working in corporate settings. So I'm gonna actually ask you two questions and I'll let I'll let you just talk through these. Um so I think many uh leaders feel like a very practical tension, right? So it's it's not um I don't think it's as simple as like, you know, I don't think a company's unethical or anything like that. I don't think we'd be working there if it was things like that, right? But it's a very practical tension of uh I know I can live my faith better at work, but I'm just not doing it, right? How have you ever felt that and what does it look like for you? And then the second is uh how do you navigate uh environments where maybe Christian values might be misunderstood or even challenged? Um yeah, so I'll I'll just those are kind of the two things I think that people generally bring up around the tension.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I I I love actually how you phrase that with tension too. I've leaned into this idea that um, and it comes out of some of the France story, but this idea that like uh, you know, we we grow the most when we're stretched the most. And I I've just always loved that. So this idea of tension um is such a home plate or home base for that growth and where it can happen. So I I I just love that word. But yeah, you also said practical, and I think that's what I feel the most at at work and in that setting. Like, how do I make space for time with God throughout the professional corporate day? Like, where does that fit? It is it supposed to fit? Um, and and what does that look like? And I guess for everybody, you know, the answer to that is is very different. And I know in my last role at my last company, there was a prayer group and a series of invitations that came to attend that prayer group. And I got it early on because there was a guy on my team who was very open about his faith in ways that I had probably never seen anybody else be that open in the professional space um about their faith. And I don't know what it was about me that uh allowed him to open up with that. Maybe maybe he does that with everybody, it had nothing to do with me, but through him, I found out about this prayer group and I remember accepting that um, you know, the series of invitations. I don't think I ever made it. Um I might have gone to one, but I'm not sure I ever actually made it. But it set on my calendar. And the funny story, Josh, is I I actually at some point realized I wasn't gonna be making these invites. And so I tried to cancel the the series. You know how you do, you cancel, uh, delete or decline the series. Funny thing is, it never went away. Like I couldn't get this invite off my calendar. I don't know if that was that was um, I don't know if that was God like really talking to me. Um, but I never I never ended up making it. But at the same time, um, you know, I think what I ended up finding was that I never felt like that space was there to do that. And it's probably more of a me problem in the sense that I don't know that I'd ever just prioritize the space there to do that. But I did find other things that I prioritized for me. So it just it wasn't really ever part of my walk to attend the prayer meeting. That doesn't mean I wasn't still operating with Christian like values or anything like that. I just I never did it in this case. And um, you know, if that opportunity is there in the future, then I'll I'll probably go through the same struggle and the same tension. But what I did end up doing was um really trying to wrap my day in Christian values and in faith and all of that. And so, like many of hopefully the listeners on here too are doing the same things, right? Like, you know, Bible in the morning. I I'm not um I'm not one of those who does my Bible before I look at my phone. I know a lot of people say that's such a great practice, but uh soon after I look at my phone, then it's Bible time. And that's usually in some shape or fashion with my wife. We've got you know, various devotionals we're doing. We're working through the Bible recap right now. So uh proud to say we're only a couple days behind. Um, so we're still doing that. And then, you know, in the evening, like just trying to figure out ways that there's um time and opportunity to get back in the word. What I have found for me, and I I think we'll talk about this later too, is I I do try to make sure the environment around me is conducive to it. So I have um moved a Bible and onto my desk. I've got some things. I've at Christmas, I got this jar of these little um verse cards you're pulling out and see what's on there. So I've tried to create an environment because you know, I'm sure for most of us we're we're at work in some way or capacity more than we're with our family sometimes. So in my world, I've been working very I've been working remotely. So I try to create this space that sort of allows that. But um, you know, I don't know how we um I wonder if there's also a way where we can bring forward those open conversations of Christianity that are so easy with that gentleman I mentioned. Like he brought it up, not not me. Right. And so we our relationship often talked about faith. I've got other colleagues who I never talked about faith with. And I wonder if there is like a happy medium somewhere in there. Like, how can I find out, you know, who is also a Christian around me that we can, um, you know, as they say, iron sharpens iron, that we can talk, you know, with each other about this openly in the workplace every now and then. Obviously, not as the primary conversation. Um, and and I wonder about that. I had at one point when I left a company and you know, you do the LinkedIn announcement about leaving and stuff like that. I I did reference my faith in in one of those announcements, and I was very pleasantly surprised that a few of the comments came back to me after that that were people catching the faith comment I was making in that comment. And a couple of them said, like, I didn't re I didn't know you were a man of faith. Um, but knowing that now I wish we had spent more time together. I wish we that was something we could have talked about. And I was I was so encouraged by that. But it's probably also a pretty big regret, too. And it's probably a pretty obvious message. Like, there was so much more we could have done together had that been something that people knew. And that's both them, me and me them that that never happened. Um I'll give you just maybe just two more quick stories. I there was uh on my team.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Just uh just before that, Parker. I mean, I think you're touching on something really important. I think that is something, I mean, I can speak for myself as well, uh, very similar to your experience in the sense that you don't know who is a believer or not, but you have to take the bold step of actually somehow bringing it up, right? So I think the very practical piece is just practicing how we do that. You know what I mean? Because I agree with you. I mean, I I remember one of the well, it was GSK, like when I left. I knew a lot of people who were Christians and I'd spoken to them, but on that announcement, I did it very similar to what you're describing. And there were so many other people that kind of said, Oh, I didn't know you were uh Christian, you know, and it kind of like I mean, it was like Did you did you get offended? Yeah, no, it I wasn't offended. I was actually like I felt bad for my, I was like, man, I should have done more, right? Right. And and I think that that to me was uh a wake-up moment, right? Because you think you're doing it, but I think there's so much more I could have been doing. And it doesn't even have to be uh, you know, anything front and center. Like, I mean, you can just say it, right? You know, when you introduce yourself to your team. So from then on, I always used to that was part of how I introduced myself to my team so they would all know from the beginning. And it opened up so many good conversations. Um that's awesome. Yeah. So anyway, yeah, great, great challenge, I think, to all of us, right? Um, just from the regret I faced anyway, was just be bold with it up front, you know, and then things will open up, conversations will happen. So yeah, sorry to go. Sorry to interrupt you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Those not so obvious, those what you thought were obvious cues you were giving turned out to be not obvious at all, right? Right. Um I had somebody on my team who was from the Netherlands and um was a convert to Muslim. She she became Muslim at some point in her life. And I had always wondered like what the deal was with that. And so at some point through a you know, a teen dinner outing, I she and I got into a uh religious just conversation and I had an opportunity to hear about hear her background and her story, and I was fascinated with it. And um, I I will not even try to hit hit some of the points she made, I'm sure I will say wrong about the religion and and the views. But what I found was so much so many similarities in the attributes and the values that she was looking for and why she leaned into um that faith for her and why she wasn't a Christian before her family wasn't a Christian, but she she was surrounded by people of of that faith at the time, and they they met a number of needs she had. And it was uh she wasn't, I don't believe she was working at the time. This was before professional age. But it it's similar to what we're trying to talk about here. Like, how do you, you know, you you never know who's in need of kindness, gentleness, patience, you know, in any of the gifts that God's put on us to bring to the world. Um, and the opportunity, you know, was met in that moment for her through through a different religion, but there were so many similarities we discussed in that moment about that too. Um, I just thought it was it was it was really interesting and eye-opening. And it uh it not only helped us get to know each other better, but you know, you can always you can also take opportunities to understand the faith journey of others that may not be exactly the same, but the the similarities were striking. Yeah. Yeah. If if I go back to your other question, if I can't, just real quick, your second one was about um being misunderstood. So how how to navigate in environments where values might be misunderstood. I I actually I think this ties on to what we were just saying. And I don't know that um I don't know that my values were ever misunderstood. Like um, I don't think people misunderstand kindness or patience or humility or gentleness or forget like people just don't misunderstand that. I I think and and I don't know that they challenge those, but I think probably more often, and just in response to the question, I think I have probably allowed myself, like my my earthly self, to get the better of me to almost like not demonstrate those values. Um I know the workplace, I'm I'm as competitive as as they come as as others, and I want to do great work, and you know, stakeholder engagement sometimes gets the best of us, right? Like, um, why don't you agree with my view, or this is why I don't agree with yours. And, you know, whether that's pride or aggression or self-righteousness or you know, any of those virtues I'm still working on as a Christian. I I I just I think that's when you're trying to demonstrate Christian values and you're trying to live that walk, and you're trying to live that faith, and you want people to see that. I think we give these confusing views to others when we then don't do that. And that's probably the thing that gets misunderstood. Like, wait, which which one of these people are you? Um, and so it's those types of things where I'm like, man, I didn't do that very well. Right. Um, I need to, I need to do that one better. I I I've never gone to the lengths of having a faith-based accountability partner for that kind of stuff. But you know, I think maybe that's something to try in the future as you get open with in that conversation with others and you you're doing your walk at work with others, like maybe that is an opportunity. You know, where where are you seeing me fall at at times and you know, help me in that walk. But um, but yeah, I think it's I think it's the things I give off that that allow people to misunderstand what I'm doing more than anything else.

SPEAKER_00 27:39

Yeah, no, that's good. And I also, I mean, just going back to what you were saying before about um the meetings on your calendar, right? So you were invited to this meeting, you didn't go to it because it wasn't the best fit for you, right? From uh how you would practice that. Um and I think that is so true, right? I mean, I think we've got to all find what is what is the way we uh want to connect, you know, and everybody's gonna have something slightly different. And part of the reason we're doing what we're doing at Amaeus is kind of not saying here's the one way to do it, but giving people options, right? So to your point about a faith-based partner, um, you know, we have these things that we're we're calling collaboratories where people get together in groups and kind of can talk through things, you know, and there's also executive coaches, um, and then there's other things. But I I think there's so much of that is uh, you know, as churches, we've done a really good job of talking about, you know, right and wrong and what how to do it. But what we're what I think we missed is like how do we customize this for people to make it very practical for them to continue to develop and grow and take that faith into work, right? So I think you're highlighting actually a few things that, you know, may not have been a good fit for you, but then others that were really good fits, right? And you kind of found what worked for you, and that's what you you kind of uh leaned into. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Well, and you remind me about this, the idea of spiritual gifts. I'm very new to learning about the depth of spiritual gifts and what that means and and all that stuff. And you know, I know that like prayer is some people's, you know, spiritual gift. And I I probably probably what stopped me from attending that meeting was just the unknown of like, well, what happens at this meeting? Is it are we on Zoom and everybody's head is bowed and we each pray out loud? Or like, you know, I don't know. You make up you fill that gap when you don't know. Um I probably should have gone just to see what it was, but you know, for you're right. For me, that it I had a hard time fitting in my day. That's a priority thing I should I should question, but um it it didn't fit for me. And so I think you're right. I think you know, leaning in, finding out what not only what does for work for you, but you know, where are your gifts that you can then offer back? Or where are you where can you lean into the gifts of others uh that you may not have that um can help embolden and broaden your faith is uh something we should look out for.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

Yeah. So um, you know, I think we've begun to touch on this, but I think, you know, what we're talking around, and maybe we'll just go straight down the middle here, is you know, it's not so much speaking about our faith, but living our faith, right? So what are the examples or how do we live it so that people don't question um like I like the way you said it. Now, which one of these are you? Right. Um and so, you know, like maybe the couple thoughts I or questions I have, and you can kind of take us down whichever path you want, is like, you know, what have you learned about the power of living out your faith? Um, how do you show it uh rather than trying to explain it, right? And then are there habits um or disciplines that you you kind of have implemented through your work week uh for people to uh that that have helped you, I guess that may be helpful for people who are listening.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah. Yeah, you know, I think the other thing we just talked about too leans into this also around the things that we do that can be confusing to others who observe us. And it's almost like the 80-20 rule. Like 80% of the time I'm probably giving off the values I hope I'm giving off in in living out my faith. 20% of the time I stumble. Hopefully it's less than that, and it's 90-10 or something. But I but probably the inverse is true for others who observe us. They see the 20% as that you're giving off as the more dominant version of you. They don't they don't see the 80. And so I think we we probably give ourselves almost too much grace sometimes to say, like, well, it's only I only slipped up a little today. Um, but for someone else who interacted with you, that might be the only time they saw you today. Um, or maybe that's what you've done in the last three meetings you've been in with them uh over the course of a couple of weeks, right? And like all of a sudden, like you are nowhere near who you think you are.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Yeah, especially when that project's not going well or is in behind right. So like then then there's a different kind of uh thing that comes out. Yeah, I agree. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

Exactly. So I have um I've tried to let that almost like rubber band snap be there for me on those types of things. Like that um that moment where I didn't show up like I wanted to show up was probably probably has more of an impact than showing up how I want to nine times out of ten. Um I still have to do the nine times out of ten, but I got to work on smoothing out the one time out of ten or two times out of ten. So what I what I've focused on a lot in my more recent prayer time has been about um asking the Lord to help show my faith to others. Like, how how can I show what it's like to be a follower and a servant of God? Like give put those opportunities in my path. I don't know that that's ever been an intentional prayer I've had before, um, this sort of season or this time where I'm asking for those types of things. And, you know, I don't know, I don't know necessarily what that's gonna look like each and every day. And and it doesn't necessarily always look like something specific, right? But it's it's I think it's take starting your day with that posture of I know I need to be um on far more times than than I'm not, and I need him to help not only put people in my path where I can have the opportunity to show or demonstrate that, or or even maybe verbally or action, action-oriented help, but I need to make sure that I'm always 10 times out of 10, you know, living how I how I want to. The other word that comes to mind when we talk about this topic is servanthood. Like I've always gravitated towards leadership. I have always, I mean, from little league baseball being a catcher on the field. Like I have I have always wanted to be a leader and just and uh gravitated towards that. But what I've always gravitated towards in leadership has been servanthood, like servant leadership. And you know, I mentioned I lived in France when I was talking about career goals with my boss in a in a conversation. I remember trying to describe her. Um, I told her I wanted to be a servant leader. That's really the image I wanted to, you know, show to others and all that. She tried to explain to me that like that just doesn't translate for France and the culture and the language. And I she said that's a really American thing to say. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Um, and so as I went on, very US US MBA Parker, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or even church parker, like Bible Bell. You know, grew up in Arkansas and went to church camp parker.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:02

And so that was really helpful because I think it also opened me up to this idea that like not everybody gets what you're trying to do. Um and and one, that's okay. But two, you may have to find different ways to help uh really explicitly call that out or express that. And so um I've I've probably said servant leadership far less than I said it in my first first half of my career, but I think I've shown it a lot more in my latter half than I did my first half too. Um, and that's because I think I tried to understand where others were and where they're coming from, and less about what I was trying to do and what I, you know what I mean? Like the perspective of helping others see who you are versus trying to show others who you are is um is what helped shape that.

SPEAKER_03 34:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

But that so that that was really, you know, fundamental for my walk. The the only thing I've done, and this has been far more recent, you mentioned, you know, um habits and things like that. Like I mentioned a little bit earlier, you know, I've got I've moved a Bible to my space, and it's not just a Bible on the desk. Like there are times when I'm going through it and looking for things that come up. Um, my wife, a handful of years ago, when my kids were smaller, we started this tradition at New Year's of doing vision boards. And so I don't know if any of the listeners do vision boards, but we uh we literally do them January 1st. There's about a two to three hour block of time that we sit down, we've got all the markers, and we we do that kind of stuff. And um, a few years back, she asked us as part of vision boards to do a word of the year. These vision boards have taken many iterations. She's, you know, of course, Pinterest has given her different ideas on what they should hold and that kind of stuff. And one of the years it was, What's your word of the year? And in that year, my word happened to be composure. Um, it was something I felt like I was struggling with professionally. I needed to maintain composure in meetings. I needed to just watch all these things. But that has evolved over time to become more of like a faith-based word of the year. Um, and more importantly, the word that we are leaning into has gone on. Um, I've gone on to tape it onto my screen. You know, like I mentioned, I work mostly remote. So I'm staring at my screen more than anything else. Uh, and so I've put that word on my screen and um use that as you know one of one of my daily visual reminders. Now I've, you know, it's it's there and I can easily overlook it, but it is something that I lean into each and every day. Um, the other thing I use is is uh a couple of app reminders like most of us, but the one I have found the most helpful, Josh, I didn't realize this was there until maybe a couple months ago. Um, if if listeners have an iPhone, uh one of the home screens you can use is a photo shuffle. And so you you know, you can set a number of photos that just it just runs through and you can set the time how often it changes. And what I've done that I just love, um, so I'm happy to share this one, is curated a set of like, you know, those like really nice background imagery things that has a verse on or some kind of quote.

SPEAKER_03 36:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

I just curated like a set of those over the last couple of months. I think I'm up to about 19 of them now. And uh it just runs through those. I have it set to where it changes on the hour. Uh your phone can do other things if you want it to. But for me, that that works great because you know, I'm ashamed to admit, but I do check my phone while the meeting's going every now and then. But when I do check my phone, like that's what I see. Yeah. And uh that's the first thing that's there. And because it's changing every hour, I, you know, I am getting this just reminder of um not only a message, but because I've selected these things, they hit they each mean something to me that has been really relevant in the last, I mean, even 60 days uh of what's been going on. So that's been a really, I think, just simple and powerful one for me. I know a lot of people like to have you know their families on your phone, that kind of stuff, but um, this is this is what I've chosen. And yeah, it really works for me.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

I like that. Very practical. I mean, and it's so simple. I like your idea about word of the year. You know, I think that's something that we've all probably thought about, but I don't know if I've um, you know, I do it probably at the beginning of the year, but I like your idea of just writing it down and then putting it uh, you know, on somewhere where I can see it all the time, uh, the computer screen or wherever. I think that's a really good idea. The other thing I just want to underscore that you said is the servant leadership part, right? I I always I mean, that's the example, but um sometimes things get oversaturated in culture, right? So they're good Christian principles like servant leadership. But once the book comes out and everybody's reading it, now servant leadership, uh I know this is not the example you're giving, but as you were talking, I was just reflecting on this. Servant leadership becomes like everybody's read the book and now it just becomes some secular idea or concept. And and then it becomes very rote. You know, it's not something new anymore once everybody's read it. Um and so I always think it's important for us to keep a pulse on what's going on in corporate world, like in the in the environments we're working on. And once we start to recognize that there's some of these ideas that are pretty well ingrained and well understood, how do you still make them impactful or how do you move to the next idea? Right. Right. And I think servant leadership for me, I remember going to um Seattle when I was working at that organization. You know, they all came from West Coast companies, and servant leadership had kind of made its run, the book, right? And so when you talk about talked about that, it it was very well understood and ingrained in people. And it didn't become, it wasn't uh aha moments anymore for people, right? I mean, that's that's kind of what they aspire to do, which was really good in one way, right? Because people all understood it. But then it also opened my eyes up to the opportunities that still existed. What else could I uh do and demonstrate to kind of bring in more Christian uh ideas, values, those kinds of things? Because sermon leadership is very much a Christian idea, just secularized. And I think there's other ideas like that too. Um so anyway, just just a like for me, it was great build. Just an aha moment around sometimes you've got to understand where the world is, right? Sometimes it's not always against Christian principles, right? It's actually embracing them, just secularized.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

And I feel like the sister thought to that or the sister book to that book is the five love languages. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Chapman book. It's almost like what the idea of servant leadership, it doesn't have to just be like acts of service, right? It can be the words you say, it can be spending time with your colleagues, it can be all those things underneath the five love languages. I also had somebody recently tell us uh if you if your love language is not one of the five, like create your own sixth or seventh or eighth, right? So like I think that idea of servant leadership just it can also be an umbrella for all those things. And for me, it's acts. I mean, I I love to receive words, but it's it's doing acts. And so that was always something that I was, you know, leaning on is how do I serve you? And for me, it felt like a physical service more than anything else. But no, it's a great point.

SPEAKER_00 40:30

Yeah. So um, I know we're coming up close to time here. So the there's one thing though I do want to kind of get your thoughts on. So, you know, as obviously you've um a lot of great feedback and thoughts, Parker, in this conversation. But is there anything that you um, as you're preparing for this, kind of was like, okay, I need to do this differently uh going forward. Uh so we'd love to kind of hear that. And then I'll I'd also like to maybe close by actually just getting your um kind of what you're working on now. You know, we talked about fourth at the beginning of this. So we can kind of just I'd love to kind of get your perspective on that and kind of uh how people can participate in that.

SPEAKER_01 41:08

Yeah. No, that's awesome. Great. Yeah. So what I definitely, what I would do differently, my I didn't say it a minute ago, but my word of the year is discipleship for this year. Um, because it's something I feel like I've really struggled with. And where that comes from is um, you know, your own or my own willingness or or lack of to get into like a religious conversation with a colleague. It almost feels like a theme we've had throughout this call. Um, you know, referring back to the gentleman who was very open with his and that unlocked me. And then how you and I talked about we weren't open with others, but we're able to unlock that at when it was too late in some ways. So I have um there was somebody on my team recently um that reported to me where, you know, I've always been more shy than not to get into this type of conversation. Like even with those where I feel like we're almost peers, you know, despite the reporting relationship, it was somebody who I consider more of like a sparring partner. Um, but it's always uncomfortable to ask others about their faith journey or like what prevents them from taking that step, or or even just, you know, why don't you attend church or you know, that kind of stuff. So I I had this person on my team who was probably the, you know, as I look back, like the ideal person to get into this conversation with. Um she was very inviting with, you know, all of the things going on in our lives. She talked about her, her family. We talked about my family, that kind of stuff. So it there wasn't, I do feel like the, you know, the the respect, the opening probably was there for something like this. But I just, I just couldn't ever do it. I couldn't ever get into the depth that I really wanted to on that topic. I often like nibbled around the edges as, you know, I'd throw in like a thank God here and there, or we're praying for you, or um mentioned things that my family were doing, you know, about church, whether it was like a Christian concert here or there, or or the church we were attending, that kind of stuff. But I just never got into that next level about where I could almost try to like, I don't know, in some ways influence her to seek the kingdom of God. Like, is there a small step you could take? Is there, and I think something that's definitely something moving forward I want to be able to step out in faith in, even as uncomfortable as I feel like that might be. Um, I never want to do that. I think what's held me back is I never want to do it in a way that's offensive or too forward or too brazen because I think that's also what in a lot of ways, whether it's through the 80s or 90s, almost gave like, you know, religion a bad name. You know, you go to church and you get somebody knocking at your door on Tuesday or whatever it is. Um, and I don't want to do that. So I I don't know that I've found the right way to get into the conversation that eases into that, but I certainly see that both as a regret from that experience, but also, you know, an opportunity going forward. And that's why that discipleship word is, you know, my word for this year is how do I, how do I show that? Where where are my opportunities? And so that goes along with the prayer I'm saying, like, Lord, give me those opportunities, put so put people in my past and let me show them what it looks like for me. Um, so that that's what was really top of mind as I was kind of preparing for this. And I think we'll probably be a regret for quite a while. But um, but that's what I want to do differently.

SPEAKER_00 43:54

Yeah, that's good. And then uh fourth, maybe quickly talk about fourth, what the word actually means. then what you're what you're working on.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

Yeah, yeah. No, I look, I appreciate the opportunity. So um Fourth is something that was born out of an idea where I think many of us are entrepreneurial in some way, but may or may not have the opportunity to go be a full-on entrepreneur. So at one point in time, like all of us, I sat down with ChatGPT and I was like, you know, hey, what if I was going to open an LLC for the various I wonderful ideas I'm having about doing all these things, like what what should I call that LLC? And so I went back and forth and I was like, you know, I want this to be biblical. I want to do all this stuff. And and what emerged, you know, it was asking me about what uh what were influences of mine and and I talked about um the story in Daniel 3 with King Nebuchadnezzar and you know uh Shadrach and Shacobed Nego. I talked about that story about um you know the fourth man in the fire. And so that's really where the idea was born. It was this idea about almost like a an LLC umbrella of some kind but it was more about more because that story really resonates with me. I I love this idea of you know in that if you read the the Bible story it talks about um the king and others looking at the fire and seeing that fourth man but knowing they put three in there right like they can see the man and none of them got burned and all of this stuff. And so this this idea for me of having that presence in my own life through all of the let's call them fires that I feel like I've walked through um where you do feel down and challenged and under pressure and all those things. But you've always or I feel like I have always had the presence of God with me in each of those moments where you just didn't know what was going to happen, but he had to I I mean I I love that I absolutely love that story. And so um the LLC never happened uh I haven't done all those other great ideas but what I leaned into recently was writing. I um used to love to write and I love to speak. I I go you know I've done various speaking engagements throughout my pharma career and I enjoy those opportunities and I've had some really positive feedbacks people have been very kind about um the times that I've spoken. And so I found that combining those two things gave me the opportunity to put some of that love for speaking and love for writing together. And so um I had all these stories that I had amassed or had built up over time that I thought I could share you know with the world in some way. And um so I've I've been doing that. So I started a Substack I just learned really what Substack was a little bit earlier this year and started a Substack and um I I've called it Forth. And so Forth has become for me a platform, I guess first an outlet for sharing these stories that you know if they reach nobody, that's great. It's helping me find a voice and get those out there. If they reach somebody and help them, that's great too. But um what they do is it gives me an opportunity to to not only share some of the business learnings and the takeaways that I'm sure we've all probably uh walked through similarly in one way or another, but it also provides this platform for people to be like, well hey what's fourth? Because what I didn't want to do was really two things. I didn't want to be LinkedIn post guy, LinkedIn blog guy. I didn't want to do that. And but I also didn't want to be like really forward like we've talked about I didn't want to be really forward in the faith part of this because I know that can be such a turnoff for for some people but I did want this to be a platform that could provide a lead into that discussion. So by leaving the name out there it's not fourth man it's it's not like it's just fourth because I want that to be just left out there and invite the conversation was like what's fourth and and we can get into that conversation.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

So it's become a platform for that where you know I you can offer that I it's it's still early I've I've done um I think I've done four essays out there. I'm also trying to put podcasts behind them to help people read through them and um behind the behind the reading of the essay I did add some additional behind the scenes commentary to those stories. I'm working on one right now called feedback um the idea that feedback maybe isn't the gift we think it is uh so we'll we'll talk about that and um you know we'll see what comes from it but I appreciate you asking it people can go on Substack it's called fourth letters uh dot substack dot com and um you know we'd love to see would love to see any comments or or hear others uh others examples of walking through the same types of fires.

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Very good Parker love it love the name I think I like the approach as well about creating curiosity that opens up the conversation I think that's phenomenal and a lot of really good takeaways here I think very practical examples of things that we can do. For me personally I know the theme that I I think is coming through your words but also as I've been reflecting is just boldness of taking the first step even when things may seem uncomfortable. And then the second is you know focus on picking something that we want to work on. Yours is discipleship for this year. Previously you know there's there was other things you were working on. I think that's something that I have uh taken on as something I'm gonna uh put front and center on my computer screen and kind of focus on that for the year. So very good pragmatic practical advice Parker thank you so much for jumping on and joining us and um thank you all for joining the Atomaius podcast. We'll get Parker's information out in the description and uh we look forward to talking to you guys next time. Have a good uh rest of your day and week